Gradually removing what you’ve referred to as SUF branding with inadvertent visual links to Nazi symbols is an interesting approach. Your company, your decision.
have you suffered today?
I strongly disagree. when I became a citizen of Sufferlandria, our community was not as big and international as it is now (@David.McQuillen.KoS please correct me if I’m wrong). but the more international we become, the more we welcome new Sufferlandrians from all over the world - and we’re a very welcoming nation after all - the harder it gets to justify a symbol that cleary resembles everything but. it is - in my eyes - a Nazi based symbol and especially European, German Sufferlandrians in particular have become increasingly uncomfortable to fly the old flag with pride and confidence. yes, I do have one in my pain chamber, but it’s on display with other flags from places I’m proud to identify with, to show my sense of internationality. part of a greater picture. Nazi Germany not so much. and that’s the reason that me and I guess a lot of other European Sufferlandrians are glad about the change. the only thing that really got me was the fact that a US guy who lives in Australia had to come up with this . but then, this is also proof for our truly international spirit.
thanks @David.McQuillen.KoS and the rest of the SUF team for keeping up the spirit of Sufferlandria and everything it stands for.
more than you!
Honour, Glory, Victory to all Sufferlandrians
I had no idea about the flag colors until I looked it up. I have German friends who knew as soon as I asked that this was precursor to more and more Nazi symbolism as flag was modified with symbols. We fail in US over and over to have the kids learn about that terrible period. So many still have no idea about the Holocaust. Then one day I was on a bike/hike riding my Sufferfest Jersey and this big guy with beard and a big iron cross on his shirt and black hiking boots gave me a big thumbs up, smile and a wink. Took me a minute to sort it out. I’ll keep my old stuff but the flag stays in the pain cave and I’ll decide about the Jersey too.
Wouldn’t it have been a simple fix to just reverse order the colors? So instead of black, white, red it goes red, white black? OR instead of having horizontal color bars they get changed to vertical color bars?
Reversing the order to red white black horizontal stripes is the current flag of Yemen.
Now I know this isn’t official kit but if you’re a fan of the laser goat and also a fan of cheese (as discussed here Too much "cheese") is it OK to wear this down the Nine Hammers tavern? Asking for a chubby riding buddy, er, friend.
There has been a lot of discussion on the new livery over the past few days…so I’ll put my two-penneth in…
For ref: I’ve been a citizen of Sufferlandria for around 2 years now and a Knight for almost a year.
New Flag: I must admit that I didn’t realise that there were ‘bleeding eyes’ on the existing flag for the first few months…and am not deeply wedded to those. Although I was aware that the black/white/red horizontal stripes were very similar to many middle eastern country (Pan Arab) flags, I hadn’t realised the link with early Nazi branding - so I can understand the wish/need for change there…but luckily I have an existing Sufferfest flag and won’t be getting rid of it.
I’m not sure about Laser Goats - I have never really understood their relevance in Sufferlandrian heritage…(just a ‘fun’ thing?)…but they may grow on me.
…and on a black flag background (no writing?)…not sure about that until I see it…but could resemble an ISIS flag if you are not careful and maybe a red background would be better?..but I can see that the red laser beams would be more difficult to see…or how about a yellow goat on red/white/black quadrants…as per the new Coat of Arms?
New COA: I agree that it is ‘cleaner’ than the previous version and I don’t mind it…and will probably get used to it, but, as a KoS, do feel that something has been lost. Couldn’t we have 2 versions…:
- Basic version: Simple ‘print-friendly’ version yellow goat on quadrant as seen (without writing)
- Kos version: same (yellow goat & black/white/red quadrants) but with writing (Pain, Misery, Agony and Honour, Glory, Victory + IWBMATTKYT ? I sweat and rode my heart out to get my Knighthood…and would like the world to know that as I overtake them!
New Kit: It does not surprise me that the new kit mirrors the Wahoo kit, but in red/black/white instead of blue/blue/black. It makes perfect sense from a branding POV…same with the new KOS kit.
…I’ve been waiting for the KOS jerseys for 10 months, ever since gaining my Knighthood, last March…I think that the new black KOS jersey is OK (although probably not as distinctive as the existing one)…and I can live with the laser goats…but it would be even better if it actually bore the word KNIGHT and other ‘knight-like’ wording on it somewhere (Pain, Misery, Agony and Honour, Glory, Victory + IWBMATTKYT)…otherwise no one (except a Sufferlandrian) will really know what a KOS (on its own) stands for - will they?..except maybe advertising a Greek island?
…Having said that - I have ordered a new shiny Cuore black KOS jersey because I’m fed-up with waiting…and I WILL WEAR IT WITH PRIDE.
However, I’m assuming that the new Cuore batch-ordering model that you are now using will allow you to update/improve the designs on an on-going and iterative manner (a new design for every order )…
So maybe you could incorporate some of these ideas into the 2nd print run???
All in all, I know that it must have been very difficult for you @David.McQuillen.KoS - don’t envy you…but a very good first stab…keep up the good work…and suffer with a smile
I love the Sufferfest and will never leave! Keep the fun and humour!
I think that this quadrant design (but obviously a rectangular shape rather than a shield) would work better than a black-only (ISIS-looking) background
This looks great but does need the Pain, Misery, Agony and Honour, Glory, Victory + IWBMATTKYT
Agree about avoiding the all black background, but these are still the same old ‘troublesome’ colors, even if arranged in a different geometry.
That works for me.
This is why I love this community and this forum. It’s not a huge complaint-fest. These are great recommendations. And also, where else do you get immediate great feedback right from the the CSO? Major props to Sir @David.McQuillen.KoS. And I would hope and not be surprised to see some of these suggestions (but maybe not exactly) show up in a future re-working. Because that’s the awesome kind of place that is The Sufferfest.
I agree completely!
Here are some thoughts from a new guy.
First, a little background. I imagine I’m not a particularly unusual new Sufferlandrian. I’m a reasonably fit person (RHR 54 bpm) in his early fifties whose knees had finally had enough of running. I started logging heavy miles over the pandemic for two reasons: more free time (thanks to working from home), and watching my wife pass relatively unscathed through a life-threatening health scare (thanks to her lifetime of smart diet and exercise choices). By the time winter came around, I was ready for an indoor trainer. My new Kickr Bike came with a 2-month free trial, so here I am. I’ve tried BKool and RGT, and I’ll try the free trials of the other services after ToS. As of today, I’m willing to say the chances of my staying with The Sufferfest are very high. More on that in a minute.
Any service is, in a sense, a trap - like a tar pit. This isn’t a bad thing; it’s just a way of saying that it needs to lure people in (the shimmer), then keep them once it’s got them (the tar). The branding, advertising, Strava images, and free trials are The Sufferfest’s shimmer and the content is the tar. If the branding is putting people off due to Nazi associations, Couchlandrian inertia, or what have you, then it has to change. Its whole function is to get the maximum number of people to the tar, without making them feel like they’ve been cheated once they get there.
Right now, I’m about ankle-deep in the tar. It’s warm, it feels good, it’s pretty sticky, but I can still grab a tree branch and pull myself out. The laser goat speaks to me because it’s a little funny, a little weird, and enough of an inside joke that it’ll make me feel like part of an exclusive “in-group” when I encounter it in the wild.
So, hey, that works. The really important part, I think, is what’ll keep me in the tar - what will motivate me to wade in deeply enough that I’ll weave The Sufferfest into the long-term tapestry of my life and forget about the subscription fee, just as I forget about the fees for Netflix, Audible, or any other “nice to have.” So far, I’m getting that. The workouts are challenging, entertaining, and making me a measurably stronger cyclist. The yoga program is the first I’ve tried that doesn’t have me wondering, “What the hell is she talking about now?” The mental toughness program is leaps and bounds better than comparable programs found on various wellness apps. And the whole “IWBMATTKYT” thing triggers my competitive nature. In short, The Sufferfest is a no-bull$#^! holistic training program packaged like a night out at a Warren Miller movie.
As long as the service retains those core elements, it could change its logo to a donut. It’ll still retain those already stuck in the tar. And the tar is good. So good. So good for you. Just one more step …
[Aside: you guys change all your logos here on the site to donuts for April Fools’ Day, right? Right?]
I like the old COA and flag better. I kinda like being part of a reduced group of people that are willing to suffer a bit more than the rest. Made me feel a bit like a badass. But if this needs to change in order to include more people, that’s ok. If this is what needs to happen for the Sufferfest to continue being a viable business, so be it. This is not a not-for-profit organization. I’d rather have the platform evolve than disappear.
Changes always happen, and we adapt pretty quickly, even without noticing it. It won’t be long before we all see all the new symbols as normal.
Having said that, I believe the most important thing are the workouts, the plans and the science behind them: that’s what makes us be fitter and stronger on and off the bike, which is why I’m here in the first place. As long as the videos are available and the new ones are not too different, I’ll be here.
Hope everyone has a good weekend!
Started my 3rd year of SUF recently. I applaud the changes and the reasons why… I have no attachment to the old flag or the bleeding eyes or the shield.
For me what is more important is the quality of the workouts, the plans, the challenges and best of all, the community.
Logos and icons come, change, and go. Spirit does not.
I am curious about the legality of getting a flag printed with the old logo. I do not want to step on any toes or piss off anyone at wahoo or the Sufferfest. I made a vector drawing of the logo when taking an Adobe illustrator class recently. If I give this file to someone who will print a flag, is this legal? I will not accept a cent from anyone.
That’s a good point! Then again I like bread, not sure I’d like being dull.
Bread, Misery, Agony. That works for me quite well.