Effect of NOT Standing when said so in session

Today I had “The Trick” workout. every-time I try to do high cadence high intense interval, can’t sustain the cadence while standing. like here once I do the first 20 sec standing then really struggled in the middle 20 sec and left with nothing to pull back last 20 sec standing again and cadence drops significantly so does power. therefore, in the last interval I did the whole 60 sec without standing and was able to complete power target. although I am okay with the standing efforts those are in the last 15 mins of sustained effort. My question is if I continue those not standing in future how much I am loosing? and anyone else also find it harder pedalling while standing?

sounds like you must be using a classic trainer(not a smart trainer). I found shifting up a couple gears before standing allowed me to drop the cadence to a comfortable standing pace(60-75), while still maintaining power.

This is a bit more simple with erg mode, as the trainer will increase resistance as cadence decreases. But, nothing wrong with a classic trainer, I used one for 4 years.

I don’t know if you are losing much, but standing will activate other muscles and give your seated muscles a bit of a reprieve.

I usually find standing to be a welcome change of position for my rear end, back, neck. I think it’s well worth trying to figure out a way to stand up throughout the workout for this reason.

Joel, I use smart trainer and in ERG mode.

my issue is that I can’t hold on to the target cadence of 100 rpm if try standing.
legs gets fatigued really fast, I can see though my heart rate comes bit down - but then it becomes so hard on the last segment to pull back power for me.

I understand this is a weakness not able to use standing muscles - but trying to understand how much importance this carries in these workouts in the session. are they MUST or GOOD TO BE DONE THAT WAY or MAKE YOUR OWN WAY,

Oh ok. Sorry I looked up this workout now, it looks like it is trying to simulate sprints, so cadence is probably a bit more important than the base/tempo rides.

If 100rpm doesn’t work well on the trainer, you could try to do that one outdoors. I find it to be a bit more comfortable to be able to rock the bike back and forth when outdoors vs fixed indoors.

It does look like the workout has pretty good rest periods leading up to the sprint, so you should be relatively fresh going in. Can you hold the power for the standing sprint at a lower cadence? If so maybe some practice helps to get the cadence up. If you can’t hold it, maybe the NM/AC power numbers were a touch high for the day.

The cadence builds/drills workouts are good for working at pedalling form at high cadence, but they aren’t at the intensity of the sprint, and they are seated.

Others may share opinions on this, but I think giving it your best to adhere is a good option, and definitely a better option than to get frustrated and give up if you can’t adhere 100%.

:+1:

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Haven’t done The Trick for quite some time but I ALWAYS have a hard time standing while maintaining a high cadence unless it’s an all out sprint. I often find myself mumbling something like “nope, not gonna be doing that cadence while standing FFS”, :crazy_face:! I will usually try to stand when instructed to do so but invariably find my cadence dropping to, at best 75 but more commonly 65-70.

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I find higher cadence on high power brutally hard as well. For me, I am sure this is due to relative weakness in my glutes, and is especially noticeable when I engage my core and avoid moving side-to-side. Squats, especially single-leg squats, should probably help here. I’m definitely going to do my next plan with the strength program.

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Joel,

thanks for your reply.

for me I managed to get as high as 170+ cadence in workout like “Cadence Build”
it’s just my leg muscles and heart rate doesn’t support high cadence high power in standing.
I did score the cadence target and + while sitting; it’s just standing position that drains me quickly.
therefore, my question is about “WHAT and HOW MUCH AM I MISSING IF DOING THESE SECTIONS SITTING INSTEAD OF STANDING”

and thanks for the inspiration and yes, I am not giving up just finishing the targets riding in SITTING position and trying to get coping up more and more with the STANDING position.

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yes that’s what happens and can’t keep it up to 100 while standing.

The way I improved my standing abilities on the trainer was to build some more leg strength as well as teaching my body how to ride whilst standing up. Doing a 90rpm whilst standing is no easy feat.
Also don’t be too hard on yourself, you’ll get there :+1:

Hi there - for visibility there is a thread on this - was maybe in old Facebook world - there is a re-check of some of the 100 or 110rpm Standing sections going to take place … and I think this is one of the examples.

In this case, I’d stand, but I wouldn’t bother with cadence other than maybe try and doing a bit faster than my usual standing cadence with is 60.

And welcome :slight_smile:

Standing sections are always super tough (ERG or level mode)!
I always focus on maintaining technique and stability by engaging my core and keeping it as still as possible on these even if it costs me a reduction in cadence.
I would say do the standing sections as much as you can as they are going to target different muscle groups and improve you overall as a cyclist. Who doesn’t love a few seconds of intense suffering :wink:

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While this does not address standing versus Witterung. It does address power versus cadence and erg/level

https://thesufferfest.com/blogs/training-resources/how-to-get-the-most-out-of-your-workout

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I too have trouble maintaining a high cadence when standing. Two things have helped me:

  • The workout Elements of Style has a good section on standing.
  • Make sure you don’t just stand straight up. Be sure to come forward as you stand. At least for me that was a problem, that when fixed, led to big improvements.
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I do The Trick in level mode rather than ERG as it allows me to go all out for the whole minute without fear of dropping below the power target towards the end of the minute.

I have tried a few different pacing strategies and I have found the description in the video to be the best for me. This pacing strategy also matches what I was taught for racing a 400m in athletics. It is worthwhile trying a few different strategies to see what happens.

I stand and go well above the target power for around about 20-25 seconds until my legs start burning then I sit down without changing gear until the gun goes off. At that point I change down two or three gears and stand until the end. I don’t pay any attention to cadence but looking back it seems to be about 120-120-110 on the first rep and then 100-100-90 by the last one.

I don’t worry too much about my cadence, sitting vs. standing or doing it in ERG mode because I feel this session is more about going as hard as possible for a long sprint rather than hitting any specific targets.

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I am no expert however my logic tells me that the trick is about building the anaerobic tank by emptying and refilling it multiple times followed by working a little FTP without the anaerobic assistance. If you are able to empty the tank whilst in a seated position, I guess you are achieving the purpose of the workout. If you want to improve the capacity of responding to attacks by standing up, sitting and standing again, you will only going to be able to improve it by practicing it.
I agree…High cadence and high power sucks!!!
My experience tells me that “the sucks” workouts, is where I get my money’s worth!
Good luck with the bleeding eyes! LOL

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When “coming forward” as you stand, I start to lose the activation of my glutes and get more on my quads. (Maybe that’s the point? I dunno?). But I find myself pushing my hips back when standing a bit more to keep my Glutes in the action. I know it’s off topic, but I could use a better understanding of standing position and mechanics. Any links/advice?

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I find standing amidst a seated session to provide some reprieve even if the power doesn’t let up. Yes, sometimes those standing muscles don’t feel like they will engage (but they always seem to). I am fairly confident that the standing stints are what allow me to finish some of the workouts.

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Elements of style yesterday had my cadence drop to almost 0 during the standing bits. I could not recover cadence until well into the cool down.I can climb out of the saddle outdoors, but doing it to order is different.I would like a short “standing only” drill which takes everything in slow motion ,explaining each different emphasis. move that leg there and feel this muscle engage, if the strain is on so and so area ,you are too far forward/back/ co ordination wrong etc.

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I’d highly recommend doing elements of style at least once a week until you dial your position and your feet in properly. For those who follow the pros probably the best climber was Contador. Just watch his position out of the saddle was rock solid.

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