Gym and Yoga TSS values

I use Today’s Plan to track my fitness and one of the things that I have noticed is that there is no TSS value for Gym or Yoga sessions.

Given that they do put some level of ‘stress’ on to the system I would be interested to track them as part of monitoring my CTL/ATB/TSB values.

Anyone have any thoughts on how I would calculate a TSS value?

You’re gonna get a wide variety of the school of thought on this topic. So take my point of view with a grain of salt. My point of view comes from over a decade of specific amateur power lifting, over 25 years of consistent weight training, and with marrying up amateur XC racing for a decade now with weight training.

Technically, TSS only applies to cycling. However, I know some runners who track TSS. You can technically track it on gym work with what Training Peaks calls HRTSS to assign a stress value to your workout. Friel also has a calculation for total weight moved by tonnage to come to a tss calc.

Personally, I assign a TSS score to my workouts when they are heavy as there is legitimate fatigue being built up. Right now I’m only lifting/weight/body training about 7 hours across 3 days a week. That’s about to go up to 12-14 hours and 6 days a week in addition to still riding 9-14 hours a week - albeit at lower intensities. You betcha I’ll be gaining fatigue by working out. If I left my charts alone, and didn’t model the workout stress, my charts would say I would be sky high on form and that’s simply not right.

I’ve used both methods (hrTSS and Friels calculations) they both come out to be pretty much the same between 40-50 hrTSS for what I’m doing. Your results may vary. Now, that said, I’m not lollygagging around. I only take about 30-45 seconds break between sets and I’m doing 3x20 on main moves right now - up to 12 main moves a session when I’m hitting legs, chest, back all at once as I am right now.

It takes a while, but I can call my form and fatigue on a given day now without having even looked at Training Peaks for a week and be within 1-2 points. I can also call my daily FTP by how I feel. The more you get in tune with your body, the more you can zero in what real fatigue is doing and what it feels like and assign a number to it.

Regarding yoga, I personally wouldn’t assign a score to it, mainly because I fall asleep on the floor on some of those.

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@JamesJordan I will just add a few things as I agree with the points made by @SirAlexanderLee. I use Training Peaks and dual record yoga and SUF strength and also add HrTSS for other lifting, rowing and running sessions. I upload the SUF file to TP and then add the second file with the HR data.

I find looking at total TSS for cycling to be the most helpful as I often go overboard with my outside rides or when I add in a race that isn’t shown on the SUF plan. The number can also be helpful for the weeks when I move SUF workouts around on the calendar due to conflicts.

You may also want to check out an HRV app if you don’t already use one. They set a baseline and can give you some indication of fatigue, general stress and illness. The app I use sends the data to TP. The daily readings sometimes don’t make sense but weekly trends are definitely helpful.

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@JSampson slight side topic - I have tried to record HRV and in the end gave up. For whatever reason in winter, and most of summer, I just can’t get any HR strap (currently using the new Wahoo strap) to record until I get a real sweat up.
As a result, I struggle to get any sort of reading in the morning or when I get on the bike for the first 15 minutes of a session.
Tried all the wetting suggestions but no luck so far and can’t find anyone whom stocks the ‘electro’ gel without exorbadant postage costs.

This helps. Thanks

@JamesJordan Try using HRV4Training - it uses the phone camera to measure blood flow through your finger. I think it also works with some other devices like the Apple Watch and the Oura ring.

I use HRVElite. They are in the process of testing a camera option. For now I use the Polar H10 strap. I moisten it slightly with water and it has worked every time. They also have a finger sensor that is available for purchase:

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Try WHOOP , I love mine and it always calculates the HRV.

Try using a WHOOP strap. I use it to “score” (WHOOP uses Strain) my Physical Therapy and Yoga sessions. It doesn’t convert to TSS put you can use it as a metric in TP or WK05.

As JSampson stated, HRV4TRAINING is what I’ve been using for the better part of 4+ years now. It’s spot on. I bought a H10 and then did my own tests and the camera read is just as good as the $90 H10.

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^^^ I do what this knight does ^^^

(With the exception of the the number of hours …. sadly lol)

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What @SirAlexanderLee can do, should really be our goal. We keep a training diary, or use various pieces of technology so that we can train ourselves to recognize how we feel without needing to measure. It Is equivalent to leaning how to ride to RPE.

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Yup. It’s paramount to know how to ride by RPE when your GPS unit decides to go to sleep on a ride and you have no visuals. RPE is all that’s left.

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I am not confident in the data from Whoop - I have two friends that were using it and in both cases the data was seriously non relatable to how the felt and rode
Then there is the review that DCRainmaker did.

How do you see it comparing?

I have downloaded it again. I will give the camera a go.

Thanks

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Consistency in methodology is paramount. Use the test sessions he has created to figure out finger placement. Then once you find something that works perfectly never change it.

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I am totally confident in the data, especially how it can help you improve your sleep and recovery by seeing over time (it takes a couple months to establish your patterns) how different actions, foods, meds etc affect your sleep and recovery positively or negatively.
I think most people try the 30 day free trial but like anything the longer you use it and gather data the more accurate and useful the data becomes.

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While it may work for some of you, the actual science behind these trackers is lacking. The basic problem is that there are no known biological markers for recovery, so you really cannot measure if you are recovered. HRV is not a scientific biological marker, there are too many other reasons for its variance.

The only thing that the science really supports is that you get the right amount of sleep, you learn how to manage the stress in your life, and you become aware of how your body feels.

I suggest reading Christie Aschwanden’s Good to Go, or listen to the podcast:

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Thanks @Heretic.The Real Science of Sport podcasts are just superb! Well worth a listen for those who haven’t tried them yet.

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Read that book and hundreds of others. Truth is, you can equate recovery to a number or duration of taper days if you are consistent in what you track and always have valid HR and test numbers to go off of. That’s what tapering is all about. Taking just a long enough break or reducing intensities long enough for the recovery cycle to kick in and peak performances to rise for a specified event.

The thing is, it’s all about you. I can hammer a 850-1000 tss week one week, hit half of the previous weeks intensity Monday-Tuesday and taper Thursday- Saturday and hit peak performance on Sunday. But that May obliterate someone else. I’ve been doing it for a decade. It’s really the long lost art of feel. The old pros had to do it because they never had data to go off of. I’ve personally basically found my way back there starting from massive data banks and learning how to read the data into how I truly feel.

Only way that works is brutal honesty. Some days are great, some days are good but should have been better, some days are crap, some days you should have just recovered. You can’t lie to yourself if you want it to be right.

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Sir Lee: What I find with Whoop and other devices is the FEE. I don’t need that. I have a functional Heart Rate Monitor (TICKR) and a phone that connects to it. Heart Rate Variability is a WONDERFUL thing. So I use an FREE HRV application, and keep track. Believe it or not, even with some very powerful drugs, it is spot on for when I should back off and when I should go full gas. In other words, I don’t need a $$$ device and a $$ monthly fee to tell my how I’m doing. BTW, folks take a look at the ‘portable EKG’ device if you really want to see a ripoff in progress.

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