Seeking clarification on Who Dares last sprint

Training
#1

Today during Who Dares, just before the last sprint, there is a message on the screen that says to try and set a new personal power record (I don’t recall the exact text). But since I’m in erg mode then that doesn’t make sense. And there was nothing prior to suggest that I ought to do the workout in level mode. Also, the target power was an orange bar… as opposed to the red one. It wasn’t clear whether I was supposed to pause and switch to level mode in order to go all out, or stay in erg and follow the workout as prescribed.

So, I’m a little confused.

And I believe this isn’t the first time I have come across confusing instructions like this. But this one is fresh from today’s workout.

Thoughts? Is it just me?

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#2

I don’t recall that in Who Dares. The Shovel, it is. If I remember the last sprint on Who Dares says something along the lines of “long sprint” or something…?

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#3

I guess I’ll go do it again and get a screenshot. :slight_smile:

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#4

I think it says it just before the last sprint in the second block. I’ve wondered whether to flick to level mode for that sprint, but so far have just let ERG do its thing.

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#5

It’s really there for people who aren’t on smart trainers. I’ll take a look at it as perhaps it doesn’t make sense there with a fixed power target. Having said that, it’s so easy to get stuck in the tyranny of erg mode, isn’t it? Even when we’re feeling good and could do more, we let the machine guide is. Quite hard to break that, but I think doing a ride in level mode every once in a while is important.

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#6

…and cue @Coach.Mac.C’s dramatic, superhero-like entrance to explain the value or not always using Erg mode

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#7

What is this Level mode you speak of?
Off to find the manual …

#8

I’ll just leave this article here if you have a few minutes to read.

There are a number of sessions that we do not recommend erg mode due to the power demands or the “nature” of the efforts. Violator is a great example. The goal of that session is to go 100% all out on every effort. We have power targets set based on the “expected” decay rate of peak power, but everyone is different, and your own performance on that one can change from day to day.

I would highly recommend doing at least 30% of your SUF sessions in level mode so you can work on your own power finesse, a skill far too many people neglect these days!

All that being said, you are 100% correct that the text for that final sprint does not make sense for users in ERG mode, and thank you for bringing it to our attention!

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Un-official LEVEL MODE MARCH MADNESS Challenge
#9

That’s interesting to know about your recommendation to do 30% in level mode. I used to do almost all workouts in ERG, but have starting doing more in level mode. Initially this was because I struggled to hit the targets in MAP based workouts (Nine Hammers and A Very Dark Placs) but I found I could hit them much better in level mode.

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#10

I’ve always wondered… Are any of the messages in any of the workouts dynamic (other than your MAP and LTHR values in HM)? I always wondered if some of the messages telling me my efforts “were rubbish” or that “I smashed it” were actually based on my actual expected numbers, or if it says the same thing to everyone. I decided the text in all the videos were static and the same for everyone until the first time I did my first Half Monty. But I’m wondering if that is actually the case.

I have been doing all my efforts on a dumb trainer. But, even in ERG mode, when a workout says “Set a new record!” I don’t always take it completely literally. But I do know that it essentially means I did to give it everything I have. And if it’s based on my 4DP profile, it’s likely going to be a 100%, anyway and I now know to expect that.

So, i would say there’s no need to change that message. It’s a great goal if you leave it in, even if doing it maybe be impossible for those in ERG mode. But, really, if you want to get technical, you can still exceed your numbers in ERG mode. Towards the end of some of my workouts I’ll intentionally try to do a continuous slow ramp up of my cadence which allows me to exceed the power target for an extended period of time. ERG mode does lag since it is reactionary. So, if you really nail it before ERG mode has a change to react you can still set personal power bests.

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#11

I would love to have SUF move towards this. Where you basically have interactive timelines with a target you should hold and whether or not you end up holding or not, the video/storyline changes.

For example, I recently did ‘Team Scream’ and it would be awesome to have a video where if you fail to hold the power when getting back to the tail of the group, your workout changes and you get a different message as oppossed to not getting dropped. It would fit the storyline too, to have some consequence to completing the workout or not being able to.

Especially with any of the race footage. A segment where you’re trying to bridge to a breakaway would be so cool when there’s a different second part of the workout if you can hold the target power and actually bridge across, vs are not able to do so.

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#12

I’m interested in how you think this concept could be realized. That for each video-based workout you actually need 3 or 4 videos depending on whether you are up to snuff or not? Or?

I’m not saying that it’s a bad idea but I’d be very guarded about adding complexity to training video.

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#13

It’s a different way of working, yes. I’d say you would leave the pure video-based system and go to more of a ‘workout’ based system where the underlying videos are downloaded/buffered and get played at appropriate times depending on your power data, while keeping the workout live.

Would be cool to have some interactive workouts from time to time.

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#14

The text in Half Monty changes depending on your results, so it could be possible to change the text depending on his power targets or not. It’s an interesting idea. The video wouldn’t necessarily need to be altered - take the end of butter, you could have the normal text if you make the sprint or “You’ve got to watch him celebrate now as you didn’t make the sprint” etc.

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#15

Yes, I was thinking more along these lines. The video is the same, but the text would change based on your actual power to say either what it already says, or change to tell you that you didn’t win, but if you train harder you’ll get it next time. And this could be incorporated into various points in all the videos. Just changing some text here and there to say “Great job, you nailed it!” or “You’re struggling. That was horrible. You can do better in the next one.” etc, etc.

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#16

Like the old Fighting Fantasy books? If you smash this target, go to section 238, if you fail, go to section 194. You know that many of those sections involve being consumed by a ball of fire?

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#17

I love the idea. Maybe make a feature request out of it so the minions can see it better?! Plus: Room for further discussion.

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#18

Like the Choose Your Own Adventure books? lol. I don’t know if I’d go that far. I would just change the message the video displayed. Less programming that way. But, anything is possible depending on how much work they wanted to put into it. :slight_smile:

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#19

I’ve added a feature request for it. If you like it, you can vote it up. If not, then… don’t. :smiley:

And if anyone thinks it would be cool to also have dynamic video changes, then they can add it to the discussion underneath, or submit their own request. :smiley:

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#20

Hey Sir David - thanks for replying on this question as I had a similar but slightly broader question. I’ve newly arrived on the shores of Sufferlandia (loving it here!) and riding on a dumb trainer with power meter… and each of the sprints in this and a few other workouts seem well below what I can hit for the short 10-20s intervals. Should I be holding back or are these sprints really designed to be smashed all out?