TSS and IF for workouts in calendar

This would be helpful to know, and helpful for reduced intensity workouts. When the weather is nice I might go out for a hard ride and if I want to train the following day indoors, it would be great to know if it’s a 0.9 or 0.8 IF ride in my calendar, because if I put in a 200 TSS ride at .85 IF the previous day, I need something reduced.

It would be good as well if the calendar tracked weekly TSS, and provided a rolling previous history.

It would be very useful also to display the adjusted TSS/IF for those workout that has customized % for the 4DP metrics… It is hard to plan accordingly if we want to hit a weekly quota of TSS.

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I already opened a new feature request for more or less the same topic. In order to keep the forum clean, I deleted it and will now copy my text into this thread.

I wish there was an easy way to see the weekly training load or accumulated stress score in the calendar.

Right now, I am doing a 2 week on : 1 week off plan and it would be immensely helpful to glance at where I am in the overall plan at any given moment.

I can see how many hours are planned during the week for each activity - and right there with this information I would like to see a bar graph or number of the overall training load / stress score.

+1 vote for me!

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+1. The calculation cannot be hard.

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Don’t forget that TSS doesn’t actually scale for 4DP as the while CTL model is built based on a normal distribution of power zones relative to FTP. So for example, if you have strong short duration power you will get a much higher NP for videos that have a lot of short duration efforts in them. BUT that doesn’t mean you’ve actually accumulated more actual stress/load as your body is able to produce that power for the same penalty as someone with strobger long duration power.

So if you put to much reliance on TSS accumulation when doing interval session, unless you happen to be well balanced across the four metrics, you’ll likely be fudging the numbers. Effectively 4DP shows up the biggest flaw in the while CTL model and that’s why Suf don’t really put much focus on it.

There’s an article on the site about it, I’ll grab the link.

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https://thesufferfest.com/blogs/training-resources/if-and-tss-what-they-are-and-what-they-mean-in-a-post-4dp-world

Have a read of that, it’ll be a much better explanation than the two one I gave :slight_smile:

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Thank you. I wasn’t even aware of this. That’s great.
Now I understand why SUF doesn’t focus on expanding on this. But…

Does it maybe make sense to find a new number or something to guide us?

I would already be happy if my weeks would be color coded, for example:

  • green (easy)
  • yellow (mid)
  • red (hard)

This way I could easily glimpse where I am in my training plan and move some private appointments accordingly.

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Yes, yes it does.

I use an alternative to TSS (Totally Silly Score) that I call ASS. Not least because I can then say “I Beat My ASS Today”. I use some other metrics too, because one is just so one dimensional, but… no, best not get me started on this topic :zipper_mouth_face:. Right, where did I put my bike…?

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we’d love to hear your thoughts on ‘x’SS type measurements sir @JamesT

Thanks @aerobrain for the information about how TSS is based on FTP, and the variability and intensity around FTP and some good comments on how some people with AC and NM numbers could get a skewed TSS result for a given workout. This makes sense, but seems that Trainingpeaks, Andy Cohan, Garmin and Suf’s most relevant indoor training competitor think it is valid enough to include it in their platforms.

@P.Weikamp the coloured coded bulbs would be helpful, but would would extra shot at IF 1 for 21 minutes be a green because it’s so short or a red because it will induce vomiting? I see value in the use of IF in this case.

One of the most relevant reasons to use TSS, is so that when an athlete goes for an outdoor ride, they can get a sense of comparison between the TSS number from their outdoor workout to judge against a workout substituted out of the plan.

My preference would be to take 4DP and adapt it to the TSS model, rather than make an entirely new metric that athletes need to make sense of in a world that seems to have be TSS based, a world that Sufferlandrians do tend to exist in outside of the platform. :grinning:

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Ps. For now, I do use tss, and I just remain aware that it’s aligned to a ‘number’ that I generated during a single 4DP test and so on.

I like the numbers and even though no one has yet (that I have seen) generated an algorithm that will provide a stress score across different ‘gauges’ like NM to FTP, it’s better than nothing at all and an upward trend is prob sky indicative, as is a downward trend

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Yes those other platform have it, as does Suf. All of them implement it in it’s basic unaltered form. Although, you mention Coggan but if you actually read his postings he doesn’t like the way it is blindly used due to the inherent flaws and he’s the co author of the original model. It’s basically one of those uncontrollable beasts now. All the experts and platforms know it’s flawed, but because so many people use it they basically have to add it.

Your example of using TSS to compare rides is actually it’s single biggest flaw as unless they are the same type of ride, comparing two 80 TSS rides for example can be very misleading. Time in zone and specific intervals is generally a much better way to compare rides and again, only if they are of the same type.

I think the issue boils down to the desire to boil what is actually a very complex system down to a simple number. Although in reality, the differences you get with TSS based on your own profile are unlikely to be hugely different unless you are significantly skewed left or right on the power scale. So spending a lot of time trying to manipulate/shoe horn two totally different models into one will likely still result in a set of numbers that have their own set of flaws.

One thing’s for sure though, 4DP will never be merged with TSS as the final number as TSS is trademarked by the PeaksWare group and 4DP wahoo/Sufferfest so it’d be a bit like Specialized suddenly selling bikes with Bontrager wheels :slight_smile:

But these are just my ramblings so feel free to take them with a pinch of salt :slight_smile:

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There’s a lot I’d like to say on this topic but :zipper_mouth_face:. And don’t even get me started on, well, let’s not start that one :wink:

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